Hi,
I am brand new to this forum and know very little about HW computers. But, I am shopping for a new tech computer to use in conjunction with my H3.
So far as I can tell, it looks like the OSTC Sport does not support Trimix. The OSTC 3 does, but it also has a fiber optic connector that I would have no use for. They appear to be identical, other than the fiber optic connector and the firmware.
I read that the hwOS firmware is open source.
So, what would stop me from loading the OSTC 3 firmware on an OSTC Sport computer, in order to have Trimix support?
If it's a matter of the firmware being specifically coded/written to block that, since it's open source, what would stop a competent software developer from taking the source code for the OSTC3 and modifying it (perhaps combining with pieces from the Sport source code) to then allow it to load and run on an OSTC Sport?
As much as anything, I am just trying to understand what it really means when they say these computers are Open Source.
Thanks for any insight you can share.
Cheers.
- Stuart
OSTC3 firmware on OSTC Sport?
-
heinrichsweikamp
- Posts: 4383
- Joined: Sunday 13. May 2007, 18:07
Re: OSTC3 firmware on OSTC Sport?
stuartv Wrote:
> I read that the hwOS firmware is open source.
It is: https://bitbucket.org/heinrichsweikamp/hwos_code but the hwOS for the OSTC Sport isn't.
> So, what would stop me from loading the OSTC 3
> firmware on an OSTC Sport computer, in order to
> have Trimix support?
The bootloader in the "Sport" will prevent loading the standard hwOS on the computer. The hardware is almost identical, yes.
> If it's a matter of the firmware being
> specifically coded/written to block that, since
> it's open source, what would stop a competent
> software developer from taking the source code for
> the OSTC3 and modifying it (perhaps combining with
> pieces from the Sport source code) to then allow
> it to load and run on an OSTC Sport?
Nothing. But keep in mind that the hardware is similar but not identical.
regards,
Matthias
> I read that the hwOS firmware is open source.
It is: https://bitbucket.org/heinrichsweikamp/hwos_code but the hwOS for the OSTC Sport isn't.
> So, what would stop me from loading the OSTC 3
> firmware on an OSTC Sport computer, in order to
> have Trimix support?
The bootloader in the "Sport" will prevent loading the standard hwOS on the computer. The hardware is almost identical, yes.
> If it's a matter of the firmware being
> specifically coded/written to block that, since
> it's open source, what would stop a competent
> software developer from taking the source code for
> the OSTC3 and modifying it (perhaps combining with
> pieces from the Sport source code) to then allow
> it to load and run on an OSTC Sport?
Nothing. But keep in mind that the hardware is similar but not identical.
regards,
Matthias
Re: OSTC3 firmware on OSTC Sport?
heinrichsweikamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stuartv Wrote:
> > I read that the hwOS firmware is open source.
>
> It is:
> https://bitbucket.org/heinrichsweikamp/hwos_code
> but the hwOS for the OSTC Sport isn't.
>
[snip]
> Nothing. But keep in mind that the hardware is
> similar but not identical.
>
> regards,
> Matthias
Aha! Okay, so the Sport is not Open Source. So, the pieces of code that are specific to the hardware that is different from the OSTC3 are not available. That would certainly make it challenging to port the OSTC3 firmware to the Sport!
I wondered how HW could offer these two computers and not have the market for the 3 gutted by someone porting the firmware to the Sport. Now I understand.
Thanks, Matthias.
Is there any chance of a Sport Plus or something that has the firmware of the 3, but without the optical connector? Personally, I want Trimix support, but I have no need for the optical connector and would not want to have to pay for the extra cost that is involved in having that built in.
-------------------------------------------------------
> stuartv Wrote:
> > I read that the hwOS firmware is open source.
>
> It is:
> https://bitbucket.org/heinrichsweikamp/hwos_code
> but the hwOS for the OSTC Sport isn't.
>
[snip]
> Nothing. But keep in mind that the hardware is
> similar but not identical.
>
> regards,
> Matthias
Aha! Okay, so the Sport is not Open Source. So, the pieces of code that are specific to the hardware that is different from the OSTC3 are not available. That would certainly make it challenging to port the OSTC3 firmware to the Sport!
I wondered how HW could offer these two computers and not have the market for the 3 gutted by someone porting the firmware to the Sport. Now I understand.
Thanks, Matthias.
Is there any chance of a Sport Plus or something that has the firmware of the 3, but without the optical connector? Personally, I want Trimix support, but I have no need for the optical connector and would not want to have to pay for the extra cost that is involved in having that built in.
Re: OSTC3 firmware on OSTC Sport?
I suspect the Sport uses a bootloader that verifies a signature on the firmware to be booted or refuses to flash firmware that isn't signed. There are many ways to prevent someone from running unauthorised code on an MCU.
In any case, coding in ASM would be painful
. It is nice to be able to read the bitbucket hwOS code to see, more-or-less how the Sport works.
In any case, coding in ASM would be painful
. It is nice to be able to read the bitbucket hwOS code to see, more-or-less how the Sport works.OSTC 3 # 4897
OSTC Sport #12887
OSTC Sport #13246
OSTC Sport #12887
OSTC Sport #13246
Re: OSTC3 firmware on OSTC Sport?
aquarat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect the Sport uses a bootloader that
> verifies a signature on the firmware to be booted
> or refuses to flash firmware that isn't signed.
> There are many ways to prevent someone from
> running unauthorised code on an MCU.
>
> In any case, coding in ASM would be painful .
> It is nice to be able to read the bitbucket hwOS
> code to see, more-or-less how the Sport works.
From what Matthias said, I don't think the signature thing is a problem. It sounds to me like it's just a matter of having some different hardware and no source code to tell you how to interface to it. I strongly suspect that it could be reverse engineered. But, for the effort that would take, it would be a much better investment to just spend the extra money for the OSTC3.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect the Sport uses a bootloader that
> verifies a signature on the firmware to be booted
> or refuses to flash firmware that isn't signed.
> There are many ways to prevent someone from
> running unauthorised code on an MCU.
>
> In any case, coding in ASM would be painful
.> It is nice to be able to read the bitbucket hwOS
> code to see, more-or-less how the Sport works.
From what Matthias said, I don't think the signature thing is a problem. It sounds to me like it's just a matter of having some different hardware and no source code to tell you how to interface to it. I strongly suspect that it could be reverse engineered. But, for the effort that would take, it would be a much better investment to just spend the extra money for the OSTC3.