My wish List for MK2N

[Solodiver]

This thread is for describing my own feature requests for future development of the MK2/2N firmware. This is not an official list! Feel free to comment and discuss, propose new features or tell me that it is bullshit what I'm writing - I will try to keep it updated.

Critical: Remove unit shutdown >130m
Shutting down the unit below 130m is not good as one also looses time and depth information. Even a not exact depth and a wrong deco calculation is better than a none working unit. Keep the unit running should not do any harm, the unit would be at this depth anyway. Showing everything in blinking red or even blanking the screen and repowering it <130m is better then nothing if one is going to dive deeper than 130m. Remember: The unit can not be switched on in the water as of now!
Also think about bounces below 130m which are not intended or emergency decents.

Major: show GF after deco is finished
partially done as GF% is show in surface mode (since 2.07?)
more importtant would be to show GF% in dive mode after deco is finished or even if there is no deco obligation (if applicable)

Major: warning for CCR sorb usage
Would be really useful for CCR divers
should be based on predefind values (compaed/calculated by run times, maybe depth, O2 consumption, more?)
20111119: requested several times by several people, simple time counter implemented in DR5 firmware

Minor: replacing PO2 with EADD in EAD/EAN Submenu
EADD would make sense and fits better in the EAD/EAN sub menu in the lower right part in dive mode, PO2 is already displayed (in the middle of the left screen in dive mode, showing is depending on corresponding CF)

Minor: flying deco
flying/dynamic deco ceiling not fixed stop deoth as seen on the AP Inspiration and other units
Nothing official, but according to current IART dvinig manuals this is a suggested and more healthy deco procedure method
Might be also done by a new CF defining a deco ceiling step which allow smaller steps than the currently fixed 3m
also CF for last stop should then be adapted to be able to define shallower last stops

Nice to Have: warning for exceeding gas/bailout
Should consider OC bailout for CCR owners
Might be calculated by CF56/57, tank size and dive profile (more?)

Nice to have: real time dive profile
under water (while doing deco)

Nice to have: some nice (brain) game
for boring deco stops
DiverM suggested Pong as it uses just one button to interact with the user

Nice to have: gas mixer
Some people would love this IMHO, could take existing Gas list into account

MK3 - open source ccr setpoint controller
For future hardware development, including O2 sensor readings and solenoid control

[s]@5 value[/s]
done, included in 1.88 as "Future TTS", thx a lot!

[s]live EAD and END display[/s]
done, included in 1.87, update in 1.90, thx

[s]tissue saturation for more/all tissues[/s]
done, graphical tissue saturation is now shown in dive mode also, thx

[Steve]

Live EAD and END would be nice indeed

same for game for long deco stops :p

gas mixer is not needed for me, it's a nice to have but I think this is not a dive computer issue.

warning for exceeding gas could be just a time and/or depth warning so everybody can use it. fe 2 min befor you have to leave bottom or you have to return (cave or wreck. And warning when exceeding planned depth.

[JeanDo]

* Matthias already added live EAD/END display during the dive (in OCR mode right now).

* I think sometimes about implementing a game. A sudoku is underway for the DR5 (thanks to PEG), but here we do have just two buttons, and we need a way to exit...
--> I don't have yet any idea for a good game.

* Same problem for gas mixer: it will be a real pain to configure what mix you have, what mix you want, tank size & pressure ... Better to leave that to your andoid/iPhone/whatever.

* And without a pressure gauge, I don't think the gas limit make sense: You will have to keep some security margin about you gas consumption (eg. 30 l/min), then the computer will told you that you should return when there is in fact still 175bars in the tanks... Nobody will obey that, and the feature seems useless...

* What about OTU computation (long term O2 exposition) ? Do you check that sometimes ?

My 2 cents words.

[JeanDo]

About GF after dive, here is an example plot:

(there is two simulations, one with pure O2 afterdive, and the second one with air, so the two tails).

[img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ir_99m.png[/img]

It might be possible to suppose you switch to air indeed (as for CNS computation), and show the GF after the dive, until it decrease to zero (of whatever limit you put in CF08).

Right ?

[Solodiver]

Steve Wrote:
> gas mixer is not needed for me, it's a nice to
> have but I think this is not a dive computer
> issue.

You have to carry your unit anyway with you and it is for sure related to diving.

> warning for exceeding gas could be just a time
> and/or depth warning so everybody can use it. fe 2
> min befor you have to leave bottom or you have to
> return (cave or wreck. And warning when exceeding
> planned depth.

For me as a CCR user not overplaning his dives it would be useful to know when my bailout is going to be too less. BTW: I've seen a gas/bailout planning feature on the shearwater (in dive planner, not in the water)!
For plain OC dives you also can calculate a shortness of gas by time and depth (and RMV, tank sive, pressure...) as you recommended, maybe you should be able to update your remaining gas volume/pressure then!?

[Solodiver]

JeanDo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> * Matthias already added live EAD/END display
> during the dive (in OCR mode right now).

Thx, good to hear. So it should only be a small additional effort to consider a CC setpoint then


> * I think sometimes about implementing a game. A
> sudoku is underway for the DR5 (thanks to PEG),
> but here we do have just two buttons, and we need
> a way to exit...
> --> I don't have yet any idea for a good game.

Hm, did'nt the OSTC have a accelaration sensor built in? What about Doodle Jump then .
But to be serious: Would'nt this be an additional input method for the 2 button problem? Think about the Liquison X1 or this rEvo Dream thing where one have to knock on the unit.
At the moment I could think about to use one button for main "game" purposes and the other one toggles different items (incl. Exit or Menu) to be confirmed so it should be able to implement some kind of game. And time is not a matter if you're hanging in deco. I will think about a addicting game which could be used with 2 buttons...

> * Same problem for gas mixer: it will be a real
> pain to configure what mix you have, what mix you
> want, tank size & pressure ... Better to leave
> that to your andoid/iPhone/whatever.

As you always use same/similar mixes it would'nt be such a PITA IMHO. You could also use your (already defined) gas list for selection and set the calculated mix in the gas list.
Of course there are quite useful phone apps out there - I recommend "CCR Mixer" for Android by the way . But what do you do after mixing? You have to enter the mix in your dive computer. And most likely you will have your unit with you when you mix your gases (which is also true for your phone).

> * And without a pressure gauge, I don't think the
> gas limit make sense: You will have to keep some
> security margin about you gas consumption (eg. 30
> l/min), then the computer will told you that you
> should return when there is in fact still 175bars
> in the tanks... Nobody will obey that, and the
> feature seems useless...

Not sure about OC (pleae keep in mind that the OSTC is not considered to do security decisions for users, so if one uses 30l/min then this is a user thing but has nothing to do with built in security margins). As I stated above for me this would be quite useful to track my CCR bailout (based on values for tank size, pressure, RMV, depth, ascent rate and deco profile).


> * What about OTU computation (long term O2
> exposition) ? Do you check that sometimes ?

For me this is not issue right now (i guess . I just check the CNS knowing people regularly doing more than 100% in one dive (we also had a thread about this in here lately if I remember well). So I'm not sure about this OTU thing...


> My 2 cents words.

Thx for that JD

> [GF calcultion on surface]

Switching to air would be fine and this is what I've intended when writing my "change request". On the other hand, on my CCR I keep staying on the loop for some minutes after surfacing so actually my personal GF would be lower than displayed. But defining and switching the breathing gas on the surface would be just to much effort for little use, maybe a CF for the time breathing the last gas after surfacing would be OK. But you should consider changes in the altitude/ambient pressure which could be a real issue after diving...

What about this @5 thing? This would be my very top priority wish and very useful for everyone in here (not depending on OC/CC).

Thx,
Jan

[JeanDo]

@5 thing:
The code use several iterations (of the 2sec loop) to recompute a runtime in GF mode (you see the planning updates every 30sec or so for long TTS).

Doing an @5 computation means making another computation for that runtime too... Hum... this seems manageable in fact: the penalty being that every 2 or 3 updates, it will stole a full set of normal @0 runtime computation cycles to do the @5 simulation, and just retain the @5 TTS... I'll try that someday...

[JeanDo]

@bailout & CCR gas usage:

Since 1.86, there is a gas usage prediction in OCR mode. On my dev -list, there is an idea for CCR mode too: after computing the CCR decoplaning, reload the saturation at the end of the bottom time, switch to OCR mode, and redo the runtime computing: hence you will have both the escape runtime and bailout gas usage.

Is it what you dream of ?

[Solodiver]

JeanDo Wrote:
> Since 1.86, there is a gas usage prediction in OCR
> mode.

Oh, thx JD, did'nt know. Is this just in OC dive mode or in the simulator?

> On my dev -list, there is an idea for CCR
> mode too: after computing the CCR decoplaning,
> reload the saturation at the end of the bottom
> time, switch to OCR mode, and redo the runtime
> computing: hence you will have both the escape
> runtime and bailout gas usage.

Sounds like the thing I thought about. What does "at the end of the bottom time mean" - is this a simultor thing? Actually I thought about a real time calculation/display . If there is a matter with computing cycles or something like that this could be done on request only so there is no influence for "normal" diving calculations.

Same for @5 - It would be OK to calculate this on request if there is not much "power" on the unit or (more) important calculations would be affected. But having a live display all the time would be a ass kicking feature .
Would it be helpful to report something more about the behaviour of the shearwater? Coming from vacation right now I hope I can still do some more tests in the next days.


Thx for your feedback and thinking about my "dreams"

Jan

[Solodiver]

BTW, the shearwater guys just released a new firmware (already including a hot fix):

http://www.shearwaterresearch.com/tools ... ut.id=3767

And this is their manual about the @5 thing:

[quote=Shearwater Predator manual (end of page 33)]
The last selection is @+5. This feature has been borrowed from Dan
Wible’s CCR2000 computer. It is the time-to-surface (TTS) if you were
to stay at the current depth for five more minutes.
This can be used as a measure of how much you are on-gassing or
off-gassing.
[/quote]

http://www.shearwaterresearch.com/tools ... ut.id=3782

[Backtothetrees]

A @5 function would be terrific! A @X function with X being a CF would even be greater
Thank your for your continuous work to stick to users needs.

[Solodiver]

ChangeLog:
- Update for CCR Sorb Usage
- added removing of "depth blackout" >130m
- added EADD (discussed several times before)

[MPereira]

Notice to proceed to DECO GAS.
As we near Christmas I would like to ask Mathias if possible, the information (DECO GAS) on the display, which could be flashing when they should be the exchange of gas, deco gas for the best available at that depth if not the best deco gas option by mistake at that depth, the flashing red information (DECO gAS) if assets are more than a deco gas, so it can be corrected for best deco gas.
I am sure that this information would enhance the great performance that the OSTC already have, and will continue to have thanks to your ongoing development and affection they have for this project

[MPereira]

Notice to proceed to DECO GAS.
As we near Christmas I would like to ask Mathias if possible, the information (DECO GAS) on the display, which could be flashing when they should be the exchange of gas, deco gas for the best available at that depth if not the best deco gas option by mistake at that depth, the flashing red information (DECO gAS) if assets are more than a deco gas, so it can be corrected for best deco gas.
I am sure that this information would enhance the great performance that the OSTC already have, and will continue to have thanks to your ongoing development and affection they have for this project

[DiverM]

If you really want a game on the OSTC, I suggest: Pong.

In 1 player mode you can control the 'bat' with just one button, touch and it goes up, release and touch again it goes down. Etc.

[gorcio]

Notice to proceed switch to DECO GAS is already there. However, I wouldn't mind if it was made more visible then the current one. However, I wouldn't like the behaviour change, so no "pop-up" screens with OK/Cancel , nothing of that sort. Just make the gas blink more visible (bigger/coloured ?) - if possible.

[bourgetel]

Speaking of deco, one useful feature that I would really like to see in the OSTC is the no deco curve planning.

I'm just out of an intensive dive trip where morning dives were often around the 50m line (on air), and the afternoon dive were to be no-deco.

I think it could be a great feature to have the list of the depths with the no-deco time they have. We could eventually select one of these depths and go to the normal simulator starting at these parameters (just a quick shortcut, since entering those parameters can already be done manually anyway).


What do you think?

[Solodiver]

bourgetel, could you clarify your proposal? Would you like to see something like a flying max depth!? Could be estimated if the GF% would be displayed in dive mode before reaching deco obligation!?

[Solodiver]

I've just updated the list to reflect the current situation. I also added a priority from my side of view and sort the issues.

The 130m shut down is something I still can not understand why it is there. Might become a blocker for me in the near future. I'll stress this request in the next weeks as otherwise I'd have to sell my OSTC which I really wouldn't like to do...

Thx,
Jan

[DiverM]

bourgetel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speaking of deco, one useful feature that I would
> really like to see in the OSTC is the no deco
> curve planning.
>
> I'm just out of an intensive dive trip where
> morning dives were often around the 50m line (on
> air), and the afternoon dive were to be no-deco.
>
> I think it could be a great feature to have the
> list of the depths with the no-deco time they
> have. We could eventually select one of these
> depths and go to the normal simulator starting at
> these parameters (just a quick shortcut, since
> entering those parameters can already be done
> manually anyway).
>
>
> What do you think?


Although that feature is/was available on my Suunto dive-computer, I'd rather do those mathematics with my trusty DCIEM tables. Also just calculating with "bucket" profiles. This will of course only work for single air or nitrox gas-mixes, but as you wrote, first dive would be done on air on your trip.

Added bonus: In case of a computer failure, you can still make the second dive, using your bottom timer or dive watch. I've had computers flood in the past...

[bourgetel]

I understand what you mean, but I don't like to use the table (I know pretty much how to use them, I do the table training in our diving school for the 1* and 2* divers).

Now, for the resilience, it is the reason why I have 2 independent dive computers. Now, the reason I don't want to revert to table is because in many cases (most of the occurrences that happened in my deep diving week), I could not use the table for the second dive. The reason for this was that the fist dive was off chart, while the computers were quite happy with even short deco times for the first dive (and second dive too). We were really not on square dive profile, and that is where the computers do marvels.

Actually, I have stopped using tables when I got my second computer, because I feel that IF any of the computers goes into error mode, it is really time to take a break anyway.

Now, when you are in a zodiac with 15 persons at 2 minutes from immersion, a fast planning tool is really an asset! I felt that the Galileo was more user friendly regarding dive planning, but much more limited in the result. The OSTC has a far better planning tool, but it would be convenient to have a list of the dept/no deco, this really gives a good idea of what you will be able to do on your dive.

Best Regards,

Gabriel

[swissdiving]

The issue here is that the OSTC really is a decompression Divecomputer and not targetet at NDL recreational diving. Planning your dive 2 minutes before immersion is asking for trouble, especially with 15 divers with variing dive profiles and computers.

Bouncing along the NDL limit is risky and should not be encouraged in recreational diving or any diving for that matter. I would have thought depth and duration is planned before the briefing for the dive and all divers.

[DiverM]

swissdiving Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[...]
>
> Bouncing along the NDL limit is risky and should
> not be encouraged in recreational diving or any
> diving for that matter. I would have thought depth
> and duration is planned before the briefing for
> the dive and all divers.

Exactly my thought. And especially when doing multiple dives edging the NDL limit, it will not hurt to do a "deco-stop-drill". ie: make the stops as if the dive was a decodive and do the stops at depths of 12-9-6m with times of 4-7-10 minutes (example: DCIEM table stopf for a dive to 39m for 45min). Coasting along the reef at said depths as an depth and timekeeping exercise.

Good for bubble reduction

[swissdiving]

Yeah but it would be so much easier if we could have a safety stop integrated in the OSTC!

[DiverM]

Use a Suunto computer as a bottom-timer, in gauge mode it will still show the safety stop