forum.heinrichsweikamp.com

Here is the proposed implementation:

1. + Use CF56 to define your gas consomation (in bar/min or liter/min) in the range 0 to 25.0
   
   + Use the new CF59 to set the cave warning level:
   [img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-011.png[/img]
   If you don't want a limit, but still want the feature, anything big like 32767.
   
   + During dive, you then have access to a new custom view (right button), showing the live gas counter:
   [img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-008.png[/img]
   When you exceed the limit, the counter goes red, and continue to go up:
   [img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-009.png[/img]

Should go in a 2.02 beta soon when ready. I am waiting for comments and suggestions.

Hello JeanDo,

this looks nice. I am still waiting to test the new beta.


Regards Uwe

Hello,

I'd recommend another CF to enable/disable the customview.

Regards,
Matthias

Isn't the customview automatically disabled, if you set the Cave Warning CF to 0 (default)? In my opinion, this would be a nice way to avoid unnecessary CF's.

Hello Jean-Do,

Can you increase the gas consumption please? 25l/mn is not enough if in CCR mode and you bailout.

Looks nice, but I have two comments/questions:

1. CF56 gas consumtion (in bar/min or liter/min) need a wider range than 0 to 25.0. Typically, 25 liters/minute is a lot lower than what most CCR-divers (that I know) would use for bailout planning. In order to avoid introducing a solution that would limit the usage I suggest to extend the range to at least 0 to 50.0.

2. More of a question than a comment:
What actually happens with the display when the counter wraps to 5 digits? Not really a concern for most of us, but simply to make sure that the solution can handle it.

Really nice!

I agree with Stephane and Dragan, it should be possible to set a higher SAC rate. For Cave B/O you plan for at least 1,5 x normal SAC but many prefer to be more conservative. 50L/min should cover most divers.

It is also a good question about what happens when it reaches five digits. This should not be a problem if you can reset the counter but if it keeps ticking up thru the entire dive it will reach 10000 on many occasions.

This brings us to the reset possibility. I believe this is an important part of the gas counter as it will provide much better support for more complex cave dives. It could reset at the same time as the stopwatch or it could have a separate Bail Reset that is only shown when the bail counter is active in the custom view. I would prefer integrated with stopwatch but if others want it separate it is ok too.

The reason a reset possibility would be so beneficial is a CCR cave dive can be quite different from how many perceive OC cave diving is. Going in to the maximum distance the B/O will last and then directly out is of course a possibility but it is not the way to maximize the use of your rebreather.

In short it is possible to dive for a very long time and in many directions with only a small amount of bailout. If you, for example, bring 2000L B/O and come to a T after 1000L you can go another 1000L on the right side of the T before having to turn back.
You don’t have to go all the way back to the surface yet however. Once you are back at the T you still have 1000L for penetrating the left side of the T as well.
If on this side there is another T after 500L you can do the same again. 500 L in on the right side, back to the second T and then 500L in on the left side.
Then you start to swim towards the surface and on the way home there is a jump you did not swim.
You took a note on the way in that it takes 300L to get there from the surface and that means you can swim another 1700L into that direction before turning back. Then after another 400L in that direction there is a T....
And like this it can go on until the turning points of either Scrubber, O2, Diluent or deco gas are reached. With a reset function all this math will be much easier.
For even more complex dives including multiple stages and deco gases this will be even more useful and same goes for those dives you spend a lot of time in OW before starting the penetration.

To summarize: Please Please Please!

Thanks again /
[DF]

Although annoying with mutual agreements, I totally agree with Daniel

Reset functionality (as included in the initial feature suggestion) is needed in order to be able to use the counter in a simple way without having to combine with wetnotes. It might not be obvious at first sight, but as soon as you add a couple of deco and travel mixes and a couple of bottom stages the situation get more complex. Exactly when a good electronic counter is at its' peak *smile*

Actually, Daniel gave you a short insight of our next suggestion once this first solution has been implemented and verified. More about that later, let's focus on getting the basic, simplified solution up and running...

Increase SAC-rate range
Verify 5-digit counter display
Implement and describe/present the reset functionality

* The gas counter is 6 digits, limited to 65,535 liters (we should check that, btw). Should be enough for most divers even with a huge scooter I think...

* Reset is simple to tight to the RESETABLE counter and average depth.

* SAC is more a problem. I'm currently limited to 25.5 l/min. Or I should drop the decimal for CF56/57 (and will be limited to 255 l/min)... or do something new... I'll investigate that...

* Haha, I think 65,535 liters will be enough too!

* I don't understand what you mean. The ResetAvg menu item is only shown when the stopwatch is running and active in the custom view. If the ResetBail menu item is only shown when the Cave Bail is running and active in the custom view they will not be shown on the same menu screen at the same time. This will prevent accidental resetting of the wrong counter imho.

* Oh, that is too bad, hope you can figure something out. Until then i am willing to beta test it with 25L SAC, i wont be trusting it anyway.

[DF]

[quote=Jean-Do]
* SAC is more a problem. I'm currently limited to 25.5 l/min. Or I should drop the decimal for CF56/57 (and will be limited to 255 l/min)... or do something new... I'll investigate that...
[/quote]Drop the decimal point, it's useless. There will be no real difference between 12.5l/mn and 13l/mn and it will be more conservative.

-------------------------------------------------------
> > * SAC is more a problem. I'm currently limited
> to 25.5 l/min. Or I should drop the decimal for
> CF56/57 (and will be limited to 255 l/min)... or
> do something new... I'll investigate that...
--------------------------------------------------------
> Drop the decimal point, it's useless. There will
> be no real difference between 12.5l/mn and 13l/mn
> and it will be more conservative.
--------------------------------------------------------
second that

Done.

Here is the new configuration for SAC (CF57 also in 5..50 l/min range):
[img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-012.png[/img]

The menu to reset the chrono/average depth is now visible when displaying cave bailout, and reset the gas counter too (and vice-versa):
[img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-015.png[/img]

Reseting chrono/average depth do reset the gas counter:
[img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... ve-016.png[/img]

More comments ?

Good work!

A weekend full of overhead mine diving is approaching fast, send Daniel the binary for beta testing

Thanks a lot so far...

Yippie!

Already have it installed, really nice!

We will try it this weekend and report back. As hinted we may have some suggestion on how to improve it even more but i think that is subject to another thread. Firs lets se if it works as intended.

Thanks a lot for making this JeanDo

/ [DF]

Any chance to proceed now to a warning for exceeding CCR bailout also?

Knowing the decoplan and the values known for this cave bailout calculation it shouldn't be that complicate to calculate. Taking multiple gases into account might be challenging and is not covered in this cave calculation yet!?

Would really appreciate it .

Thx,
Jan

I agree with you Jan, having the Bail Counter taking decompression schedule into account would be very useful. And it should be able to function with the penetration diving that most CCR divers participate in, either it be wrecks or caves and mines.

If it were only to work for OW divers it would in my opinion be quite meaningless, as long as an OW diver stays within the pre-planned TTS the B/O will last. It is not that hard to remember that number.
Of course those that do not plan their decompression dives ahead could benefit from such a function but i do not believe the OSTC should cater to that kind of behaviour. I assume you agree with this.

To the idea with a reversed TTS there are still functions missing to get it to work properly. The gas counter is a first step but yours would be the fourth. There is one more step to the Bail Counter that would be rather easy to implement and that would only take up a little more memory. Then there is the matter of implementing a decompression calculation taking into account a reversed profile. This would take up a bit more memory and be pretty hard on the processor, but since it is now running at 32 MHz it might be possible. The forth step would then be to use these three functions together with the gaslist and a new setting for tank volume data to get your suggestion to work.

Right now however i am very happy with the bail counter and if we can get the second step to work the OSTC will be so much better than anything on the market that my customer satisfaction will skyrocket thru the roof.

Perhaps later on we can launch a new thread about Reversed TTS and Deco Bail Warning, but now I am just grateful to JeanDo and HW for implementing this suggestion of mine as they have done with so many of yours.

Really awesome with a computer that gets better all the time.

/ [DF]

I am planning to implement Bailout TTS for CCR divers, which might interest mainly OW divers.
Namely:

Every other cycle, make an ascent simulation in bailout mode (using your programmed active gas and switches). Retain and display just the global TTS. With a warning (going red when exceeding a predefined number of minutes, or liters, will see). This way, you can dynamically display both the CCR TTS (normal display), and the Bailout TTS display (in one more custom view).

This is assuming you bailout, and ascent directly, hence won't be good for cave diving. It will be of interest for CCR divers that don't do square dives, and spend some time in slow ascending, hence can't make accurate and efficient plannings.

If I understood correctly what you asked for (reversed profile + bail deco), I am sure it won't work even with the 32Mhz speed...


Enjoy you cave/mine explorations this week end,

WARNING: There is a minor problem with the 2.02 beta version: it seems it not to record anything in the logbook !


During this morning dive, everything went smoothly. Cave gas counter looked reasonable (I was not in a cave btw). And deco as usual. But once back on the graph is ok, and nofly and desat also as usual. BUT dive is not recorded n the logbook !

Matthias have already investigated, and made some fixes. So another beta will be scheduled soon...

Best regards,

Yep, had the same problem this morning, the date of the dive was "n'importe quoi" and duration 255 minutes ...

An unwanted side-effect of the fact I want to have the CPU speed variable. I already made some fixes and will upload a new beta tomorrow or Monday.

Cheers,
Matthias

Daniel and I made two dives each in a proper cave profile and it seems that it worked flawlessly. Actually seeing the function in front of me made me realize just how much I have actually missed this feature

We'll keep testing during the rest of the weekend and get back to you.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks to jeando for implementing I have uploaded the 2.03beta now which writes the logbook data correctly again...

Cheers,
Matthias

As Jonas said it was a very nice function! It seemed accurate and was very clear, it was easy to reset as soon as we entered the overhead and it kept ticking up until the preset value was reached before going red. Good idea with the warning colour JeanDo, much better than simply counting upwards.

Unfortunatly we could not confirm the accuracy as it did not log the AvgDepth and the OSTC always differ a bit from my Shearwater controller. Will test that with the updated firmware next dive.

I have two suggestions of improving it, one that we already have planned and one that we noticed under the water when shifting thru the menues. I will bring these up in a specific thread as this one is getting rather full.

Matthias,

after update through JDiveLog from 2.0 to 2.03 beta everything was excellent.CF56 and CF57 needed to be adjusted as expected,simulation running ok.But opening logbook made me look for this:



And 2.03 beta seems not to read anything in the logbook that was dived on 2.0,after 12 minutes ''Wait...'' there were only dives made with 1.9x betas.Trying to view any of the dives results in another 12' waiting and then profile graph is fully blue with red line running through and profile line is all wrong.following screen with gases is all mixed up,displaying different decimals of 255 (pointing to recent SAC rate changes perhaps?).Screenshot tomorrow,it is a bit late to wait 2x 12 min to reproduce.
Will see if new dives are written correctly in the morning.

Cheers,
Richard