Hi there,
I recently received my unit and have only been able to simulate dives so far. It will be a week or two before I can go diving again.
I have one question so far: is it possible to have a prompt suggesting gas switches at the depths for which the gasses were set up in the gas list?
Thanks,
Kobus
Gas Prompts?
Re: Gas Prompts?
rettet euch selbst
Re: Gas Prompts?
Personally, if it was possible, I would like to have a better gas switch indicator, than just blinking. A nice prompt on the screen, big, with custom color, lasting 3-5 seconds, would be nice to have (as a configurable parameter, not as a fixed,hardcoded functionality)
Kind regards,
Gorcio, OSTC MK2 828
Gorcio, OSTC MK2 828
Re: Gas Prompts?
gorcio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, if it was possible, I would like to
> have a better gas switch indicator, than just
> blinking. A nice prompt on the screen, big, with
> custom color, lasting 3-5 seconds, would be nice
> to have (as a configurable parameter, not as a
> fixed,hardcoded functionality)
I would also like this if possible and if it could suggest the gas that is better to use then that would be great
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, if it was possible, I would like to
> have a better gas switch indicator, than just
> blinking. A nice prompt on the screen, big, with
> custom color, lasting 3-5 seconds, would be nice
> to have (as a configurable parameter, not as a
> fixed,hardcoded functionality)
I would also like this if possible and if it could suggest the gas that is better to use then that would be great
Re: Gas Prompts?
kobus Wrote:
>
> I would also like this if possible and if it could
> suggest the gas that is better to use then that
> would be great
The ability to quickly accept this suggestion would be nice to. Rather than having to go through Menu > Gas setup > Picking the gas etc
>
> I would also like this if possible and if it could
> suggest the gas that is better to use then that
> would be great
The ability to quickly accept this suggestion would be nice to. Rather than having to go through Menu > Gas setup > Picking the gas etc
Scott
Re: Gas Prompts?
I would expect the prompt to be driven by the user set operation depth rather than the calculated MOD.
Scott
Re: Gas Prompts?
Regthing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kobus Wrote:
> >
> > I would also like this if possible and if it
> could
> > suggest the gas that is better to use then that
> > would be great
>
> The ability to quickly accept this suggestion
> would be nice to. Rather than having to go through
> Menu > Gas setup > Picking the gas etc
+1 for being able to quickly accept the suggestion
-------------------------------------------------------
> kobus Wrote:
> >
> > I would also like this if possible and if it
> could
> > suggest the gas that is better to use then that
> > would be great
>
> The ability to quickly accept this suggestion
> would be nice to. Rather than having to go through
> Menu > Gas setup > Picking the gas etc
+1 for being able to quickly accept the suggestion
Re: Gas Prompts?
May I suggest that the "gas switch" suggestion could be done as follows:
a) it ignores non active gases
b) if the gas is active but no depth has been set then it suggests the gas at MOD
c) if the gas is active and a change depth has been set then the suggestion is made at that depth.
Big bold letters. Two buttons to be pressed to accept the change to avoid unintended swaps?
D
a) it ignores non active gases
b) if the gas is active but no depth has been set then it suggests the gas at MOD
c) if the gas is active and a change depth has been set then the suggestion is made at that depth.
Big bold letters. Two buttons to be pressed to accept the change to avoid unintended swaps?
D
OSTC MK2 1394
Re: Gas Prompts?
Not sure I'm a fan of the two button press idea. I sometimes find that because if the nature of the buttons they don't always work first time so reliably seeing a two together may end up canceling/missing the prompt. It is also alien to the rest of the menu/command structure (unless you want a VR3)
To keep in line with the current menu structure I would suggest a small menu appears below the prompt
Ignore
Accept
The curser would default to ignore so that if you did unintentionaly Enter then it won't swap the gas. To accept the change would then only require a left then a right press.
To keep in line with the current menu structure I would suggest a small menu appears below the prompt
Ignore
Accept
The curser would default to ignore so that if you did unintentionaly Enter then it won't swap the gas. To accept the change would then only require a left then a right press.
Scott
Re: Gas Prompts?
Hi Regthing,
I didn't mean simultaneously.
More like this:
* The screen suggests that there is a better gas (this doesn't go away for some time)
* diver pushes the menu button
* diver presses the enter button to accept going into the menu
* If there is a better gas available then the first option available is "Change to gas XX" (this option is only available IF there is a better gas available)
* If diver wishes to change then "enter" otherwise menu to access the rest of the menu options.
Let's say that there would be an efficiency gain in the number of buttons required to push but still making sure it is an intended change.
Right now you'll need to go menu>enter>menu until gas selector>enter> menu until right gas> enter.....
D
I didn't mean simultaneously.
More like this:
* The screen suggests that there is a better gas (this doesn't go away for some time)
* diver pushes the menu button
* diver presses the enter button to accept going into the menu
* If there is a better gas available then the first option available is "Change to gas XX" (this option is only available IF there is a better gas available)
* If diver wishes to change then "enter" otherwise menu to access the rest of the menu options.
Let's say that there would be an efficiency gain in the number of buttons required to push but still making sure it is an intended change.
Right now you'll need to go menu>enter>menu until gas selector>enter> menu until right gas> enter.....
D
OSTC MK2 1394
Re: Gas Prompts?
Hi D,
I'm with you on trying to reduce the number of buttons required to switch the gasses, however I still think you've over complicated it.
Remembering that a prompt will only appear if the gas is set to active. (Whether the prompt is set by calculated MOD or user set operation depth could be a CF.) and as the prompt will be suggesting the most suitable gas then you really only need to accept or decine it as opposed to selecting it from your gas list.
If the prompt inlcudes the menu:
Decline
Accept
With the curser defaulting to Decline if you mistakingly press Enter then you have to go throught the current sequence. Or if you have left a gas active by mistake then there is minimal fuss to cancel it.
Howerever if you do want to accept then you only have two button pressess, Menu to move the curser then Enter.
In short two presses and you've confirmed a change of gas.
I'm with you on trying to reduce the number of buttons required to switch the gasses, however I still think you've over complicated it.
Remembering that a prompt will only appear if the gas is set to active. (Whether the prompt is set by calculated MOD or user set operation depth could be a CF.) and as the prompt will be suggesting the most suitable gas then you really only need to accept or decine it as opposed to selecting it from your gas list.
If the prompt inlcudes the menu:
Decline
Accept
With the curser defaulting to Decline if you mistakingly press Enter then you have to go throught the current sequence. Or if you have left a gas active by mistake then there is minimal fuss to cancel it.
Howerever if you do want to accept then you only have two button pressess, Menu to move the curser then Enter.
In short two presses and you've confirmed a change of gas.
Scott
Re: Gas Prompts?
How about this:
If a better gas is available it gets flagged on the screen.
If and when the diver is ready to change the diver presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?" prompt the diver is presented with the following two options:
* "switch to XYZ?"
* "menu?"
The options are as follows:
a) do nothing, it times out.
b) press enter and change gas.
c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then "enter" and all menu items are available.
Is that short enough?
D
If a better gas is available it gets flagged on the screen.
If and when the diver is ready to change the diver presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?" prompt the diver is presented with the following two options:
* "switch to XYZ?"
* "menu?"
The options are as follows:
a) do nothing, it times out.
b) press enter and change gas.
c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then "enter" and all menu items are available.
Is that short enough?
D
OSTC MK2 1394
Re: Gas Prompts?
dmainou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about this:
>
> If a better gas is available it gets flagged on
> the screen.
>
> If and when the diver is ready to change the diver
> presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?"
> prompt the diver is presented with the following
> two options:
>
> * "switch to XYZ?"
> * "menu?"
>
> The options are as follows:
>
> a) do nothing, it times out.
> b) press enter and change gas.
> c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then
> "enter" and all menu items are available.
>
> Is that short enough?
>
> D
This would be great!
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about this:
>
> If a better gas is available it gets flagged on
> the screen.
>
> If and when the diver is ready to change the diver
> presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?"
> prompt the diver is presented with the following
> two options:
>
> * "switch to XYZ?"
> * "menu?"
>
> The options are as follows:
>
> a) do nothing, it times out.
> b) press enter and change gas.
> c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then
> "enter" and all menu items are available.
>
> Is that short enough?
>
> D
This would be great!
Re: Gas Prompts?
dmainou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about this:
>
> If a better gas is available it gets flagged on
> the screen.
>
> If and when the diver is ready to change the diver
> presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?"
> prompt the diver is presented with the following
> two options:
>
> * "switch to XYZ?"
> * "menu?"
>
> The options are as follows:
>
> a) do nothing, it times out.
> b) press enter and change gas.
> c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then
> "enter" and all menu items are available.
>
> Is that short enough?
>
> D
I like that also, same number of presses to select the gas and gives quicker access to the menu if required, although not sure why I'd need access to the menu unless I wanted to pick a less than ideal gas. Also it doesn't give a quick option to cancel the prompt if you have left a gas active by mistake. However the length of time that the prompt is displayed could be a CF.
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about this:
>
> If a better gas is available it gets flagged on
> the screen.
>
> If and when the diver is ready to change the diver
> presses "menu" and rather than the usual "menu?"
> prompt the diver is presented with the following
> two options:
>
> * "switch to XYZ?"
> * "menu?"
>
> The options are as follows:
>
> a) do nothing, it times out.
> b) press enter and change gas.
> c) press "menu" again ("menu?" gets selected) then
> "enter" and all menu items are available.
>
> Is that short enough?
>
> D
I like that also, same number of presses to select the gas and gives quicker access to the menu if required, although not sure why I'd need access to the menu unless I wanted to pick a less than ideal gas. Also it doesn't give a quick option to cancel the prompt if you have left a gas active by mistake. However the length of time that the prompt is displayed could be a CF.
Scott
Re: Gas Prompts?
I think that the flag showing a better gas is available should be shown for a "long" period of time. On deep OC hypoxic dives where gases are swapped at depth the process is relatively slow. For example, you may be the last to change after checking what your buddy is about to do. So longer than a minute.(maybe it shouldn't go away at all)
Now, the other time out is the one between the accidental pressing of "menu" and the lack of further selection. That amount of time is already controlled by CF10.
You may wish to access the rest of the menu for a large number of things such as fixing a forgotten, donated or wrongly configured gas, stop watch, tissue loading graphs, etc)
Mattias, Do you think we could get something like this implemented?
Thanks mate.
Now, the other time out is the one between the accidental pressing of "menu" and the lack of further selection. That amount of time is already controlled by CF10.
You may wish to access the rest of the menu for a large number of things such as fixing a forgotten, donated or wrongly configured gas, stop watch, tissue loading graphs, etc)
Mattias, Do you think we could get something like this implemented?
Thanks mate.
OSTC MK2 1394
-
heinrichsweikamp
- Posts: 4469
- Joined: 13 May 2007, 18:07
Re: Gas Prompts?
Hi All,
Thanks for the discussion and suggestions. We'll see what fits to the OSTC approach.
As written before the OSTC is meant to give the diver the options and information required to do decompression, multi-gas dives. Part of this concept is the very simple menu-structure that is very easy to use with the limitation of two buttons.
Any critical function requires at least two button presses within a (configurable) interval to avoid triggering them by accident.
We're considering moving some objects in the UW-Menu and color-code the gas list (Red for gases that are not suitable for the current depth). This will help choosing the right gas when a change is suggested. Additionally, the Gaslist will be on top of the menu page 1 (That saves one button press).
Personally, I don't like the guided-dive (with pop-up-like gas prompts) approach some of you suggest. You already got the CF42 (Blink Gas) which adds a quite annoying blinking of the current gas if a better was configured for this depth. So, I don't see much demand for another CF to configure a pop-up box with the same information again.
Cheers,
Matthias
Thanks for the discussion and suggestions. We'll see what fits to the OSTC approach.
As written before the OSTC is meant to give the diver the options and information required to do decompression, multi-gas dives. Part of this concept is the very simple menu-structure that is very easy to use with the limitation of two buttons.
Any critical function requires at least two button presses within a (configurable) interval to avoid triggering them by accident.
We're considering moving some objects in the UW-Menu and color-code the gas list (Red for gases that are not suitable for the current depth). This will help choosing the right gas when a change is suggested. Additionally, the Gaslist will be on top of the menu page 1 (That saves one button press).
Personally, I don't like the guided-dive (with pop-up-like gas prompts) approach some of you suggest. You already got the CF42 (Blink Gas) which adds a quite annoying blinking of the current gas if a better was configured for this depth. So, I don't see much demand for another CF to configure a pop-up box with the same information again.
Cheers,
Matthias
Re: Gas Prompts?
I like the colour coding of the gas list idea. And moving the gas list to the top of the menu would be an improvememnt. Whilst underwater would it be possible for the gas list to be sorted by the most suitable gas for the depth? The best gas going to the top of the list worst to bottom?
Not sure if I see it as a guided dive though. You still need to configure the gasses, it's just making it easier to get to them when they are required.
Not sure if I see it as a guided dive though. You still need to configure the gasses, it's just making it easier to get to them when they are required.
Scott
-
MSE
Re: Gas Prompts?
Personally I don't think it is a good idea to have a promt to switch deco gas - I feel this shortcut could increase the chance of missing a checking step while gas switching.
I always switch the gas on the computer once I have already done my gas checks, buddy checks and am breathing from my deco gas.
Keeping the gas switch process as it already is should keep gas switching a standard process, avoiding shortcuts. After all, it hardly takes a long time to switch the gas settings as it is.
I always switch the gas on the computer once I have already done my gas checks, buddy checks and am breathing from my deco gas.
Keeping the gas switch process as it already is should keep gas switching a standard process, avoiding shortcuts. After all, it hardly takes a long time to switch the gas settings as it is.
-
heinrichsweikamp
- Posts: 4469
- Joined: 13 May 2007, 18:07
Re: Gas Prompts?
Hello,
We have added the color-coded Gaslist already into the code: Gases are red (depending on your configured warning color) if the ppO2 for this gas in this depth would be bigger then CF18 (ppO2 Warning high, default 1.60Bar). That should avoid choosing the wrong gas and already helps to find the right one if you lost your runtime table.
Regards,
Matthias
We have added the color-coded Gaslist already into the code: Gases are red (depending on your configured warning color) if the ppO2 for this gas in this depth would be bigger then CF18 (ppO2 Warning high, default 1.60Bar). That should avoid choosing the wrong gas and already helps to find the right one if you lost your runtime table.
Regards,
Matthias
Re: Gas Prompts?
MSE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
while gas switching.
>
> I always switch the gas on the computer once I
> have already done my gas checks, buddy checks and
> am breathing from my deco gas.
Same here, that's why I mentioned that it could be configurable as CF, not hardcoded functionality. In general, I like a lot being left in charge, so if there is an option of "being guided by computer" - some people will like. Others, who run on the procedures first, would simply not activate this option.
-------------------------------------------------------
while gas switching.
>
> I always switch the gas on the computer once I
> have already done my gas checks, buddy checks and
> am breathing from my deco gas.
Same here, that's why I mentioned that it could be configurable as CF, not hardcoded functionality. In general, I like a lot being left in charge, so if there is an option of "being guided by computer" - some people will like. Others, who run on the procedures first, would simply not activate this option.
Kind regards,
Gorcio, OSTC MK2 828
Gorcio, OSTC MK2 828
Re: Gas Prompts?
gorcio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MSE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> while gas switching.
> >
> > I always switch the gas on the computer once I
> > have already done my gas checks, buddy checks
> and
> > am breathing from my deco gas.
>
> Same here, that's why I mentioned that it could be
> configurable as CF, not hardcoded functionality.
> In general, I like a lot being left in charge, so
> if there is an option of "being guided by
> computer" - some people will like. Others, who
> run on the procedures first, would simply not
> activate this option.
Likewise, I always switch gases and make sure everything is OK before I tell my computer. It doesn't mean it has to be more complicated than it has to be to do it. A CF to enable the function would be good.
-------------------------------------------------------
> MSE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> while gas switching.
> >
> > I always switch the gas on the computer once I
> > have already done my gas checks, buddy checks
> and
> > am breathing from my deco gas.
>
> Same here, that's why I mentioned that it could be
> configurable as CF, not hardcoded functionality.
> In general, I like a lot being left in charge, so
> if there is an option of "being guided by
> computer" - some people will like. Others, who
> run on the procedures first, would simply not
> activate this option.
Likewise, I always switch gases and make sure everything is OK before I tell my computer. It doesn't mean it has to be more complicated than it has to be to do it. A CF to enable the function would be good.
Scott