CCR Bailout mode

[Anders]

In CCR dive mode, the Setpoint- and Bailout-menu is reached with the Left button followed by two times Right. From top down the three Setpoints are listed and below these is the Bailout prompt.

Would it not be better if the Bailout prompt was put on top of the three Setpoints instead of below?

If you configure Gas #1 as the Bailout gas, Bailout will then be reached and activated via
Left-Right-Right-Right-Right
instead of now
Left-Right-Right-Left-Left-Left-Right-Right.

This would, in my humble opinion, be a much easier and quicker way to put the OSTC in Bailout mode. You don’t even need to look at the screen to set it correctly.

/anders

[Solodiver]

Thx Anders for bringing this up again. This has been requested several times before and personally I and some other users support this feature, so +1!

Considering that bailing out is most likely a stress situation while changing setpoint is not might be an additional point for a change of the current behavior.

[Janne]

Anders...you stole the words from my mouth...I have had the exact same thoughts when playing with the menus during deco-stops. When the RB starts making bubbles you are in trouble...to enter the Bail-out mode should be simple and logical...Anders for President!

[JmE]

+1

[davide]

I agree.
Even the return to the ccr mode from bailout in not simple. You have to select the diluent gas and then the setpoint.
A two mode system (ccr/bailout) it would be better, i think.

davide
from italy

[kobus]

+1

[smcmullan]

+1

I think this area should be looked at. The very first option available from the Inspiration Vision computer is open circuit bailout

[Solodiver]

Thx Stephen, good Point. On the Shearwater it is not the 1st option (firmware 36) but the 3rd IIRC, so it is LEFT-LEFT-LEFT-RIGHT.

Also interessting on the Shearwater: users are able to change the high GF while in dive mode (but not the low GF).

Thx,
Jan

[Solodiver]

I've to amend that on the Shearwater also the 1st option is for switching from (the predfined) low to high setpoint (single click) or vice versa followed by the gas selection (2nd option) showing CC->OC just as 3rd option. So lets do it better

[heinrichsweikamp]

Hi,

Question is, do you really need to switch your computer into bailout first when having a problem? Bailout on a CCR should not be an emergency situation.
So you can change in the OSTC to bailout after using the OC regulator. Effect on your decompression is minimal when keeping the OSTC run in CC mode for some more seconds.
Unintentional switch to bailout will be much more annoying during the other 99% of the dives when you just wanted to switch your Setpoint.

As you can guess it's really simple for us to change the menu order, anyway...

It's your choice

regards,
Matthias

[Solodiver]

The only benefit for the current situation will be when you switch to SP 1, you have to scroll down for SP2 and SP3 anyway. It doesn't make that much difference if one has to scroll down two or three steps. And for SP1 it is different behavior where one don't has to use the other button as for SP2 and SP3.

And yes, bailing out might be quite a serious situation - not emergency as you wrote but stress for sure. Why should one bailing out apart from that? In 130 dives on CC now I never did (except for training/test).

So I vote for a change.

Thx,
Jan

[Anders]

Hi Matthias!

If it's not a big deal to change the menu order, please try it in the next firmware version and see if there will be any negative feedback? In that case you can always change it back again



/anders

[Solodiver]

Looking at the menu structure again: Why not move the Bailout option one step upwards on the first place in the menu so it could be reached via LEFT-RIGHT-RIGHT?

It would also be cool to place the cursor to the best gas (which is most likely choosen by the diver) in the bail out gas selection menu. This is most likely the gas with the highest PPO2 lower then the max PPO2 configured. So a complete bailout procedure could be done by pressing LEFT-RIGHT-RIGHT-RIGHT (most important is that one can just press RIGHT several times without need to watch the unit very intensely).


Thx,
Jan

[_StranGe_]

+1

[smcmullan]

Hi Matthias,

<Question is, do you really need to switch your computer into bailout first when having a problem? Bailout on a CCR should not be an emergency situation.

No, personally I would make a pretty quick ascent out of depth to my first stop and then change the computers at that point. BUT its still a stressful situation so as simple a procedure as possible please.

<So you can change in the OSTC to bailout after using the OC regulator. Effect on your decompression is minimal when keeping the OSTC run in CC mode for some more seconds.

Correct. I agree.

<Unintentional switch to bailout will be much more annoying during the other 99% of the dives when you just wanted to switch your Setpoint.

Well I do not change setpoint on the OSTC. I leave it set to 1.3 for the entire dive. I must stress however that I use the OSTC as a secondary computer with an aggressive profile to be used as a bailout computer and a sanity check for the primary Vision. Perhaps others diving the OSTC as a primary would indeed agree with you.

However to compare with the operation of the Vision computer: when underwater and you press the L+R buttons on the handset the very first thing you are presented with is the option to go to Open Circuit i.e. bailout. Now when I'm tweaking my setpoints, checking my CNS% on a normal dive I've never inadvertently put the computer into Open Circuit mode and its not an inconvenience to see it as the first item displayed which I ignore for some other function.

<As you can guess it's really simple for us to change the menu order, anyway...
It's your choice smiling smiley

As a compromise how about making it configurable? Default config is to retain the menu system as is but allow us to choose to modify it? Or are the CFs too scarce to use in this fashion?

Thanks for all the efforts guys

Stephen
OSTC MK2 #850

[JeanDo]

@Stephen

As a compromise how about making it configurable? Default config is to retain the menu system as is but allow us to choose to modify it? Or are the CFs too scarce to use in this fashion?


Yes, CF are getting scarse. It is beginning to be messy to remember where to find what function. Also: changing the order is very easy, making it CF-choosable is more difficult, and adds complexity to the doc too...

So I won't make it configurable...

Cheers,

[heinrichsweikamp]

I still don't see the benefit of changing the order here, sorry. To save three button presses in the rare bailout case you always have to add one press when changing the setpoint?

Maybe it's better to move the bailout option completely out of the setpoint list?

Regards,
Matthias

[Janne]

I normally do not change the setpoint during the dive...and it normally runs almost as my Inspiration Vision.

Just because you do a real bail-out with the RB so very seldom...it is even more important that it is VERY simple to find the bail-out prompt.

As Anders pointed out in the beginning of the thread...LEFT-RIGHT-RIGHT and then the bail-out gas as number 1.

Everything else is nice to have and you have normally plenty of time...pls change.

[Solodiver]

heinrichsweikamp Wrote:
> Maybe it's better to move the bailout option
> completely out of the setpoint list?

YESSSSS

[heinrichsweikamp]

See: http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/read.php?2,7142

regards,
Matthias

[Solodiver]

Playing around with the bail out menu and options today running 2.07 I have the strong feeling that the recalculation of the deco takes a very long time or is not done in some cases. Being in very shallow water sitting on the deco I did not see any recalculation when switching bail out mixes in most cases or it took quite a long time (more than a minute!?).

Just my personal impressions, maybe someone else could check this as well.

[JeanDo]

Are you sure it should change TTS ?

Because if you are sitting in very shallow water (say less than 6m), changing from setpoint 1.6 to a pure O2 deco tank won't change anything

[Solodiver]

I doubt that someone is able to run a CCR at 1.6 in 6m depth. Even for dives at sea level there is a mentionable amount of offgased Nx or He in the loop just after very few breaths after a flush.

In my case I did test between different mixes from NX100 to 11/48.

Keep in mind that there has been in bug in deco calculation in shallower parts in 2.07 so I wouldn't give to much on my experience as long as other users do not report similar issues with newer firmwares.

[[DF]]

I dont like this new placement of the bailout selection, please put it back where it was before.

Reason: When bailing out the important thing to do fast is to actually bail out. The extra 2 seconds it will take to scroll down the list is not going to make any difference at all. The only thing moving it to the top will accomplish is to make it easier to accidentally activate, it will mess with peoples muscle memory and make it will be harder and more annoying to change setpoints.

Keep it the way it was.

[davide]

Why bailout it is in the setpoint menu? I think that it's better to move the bailout option completely out of the setpoint list (like 1.6 firmware, right?)