Three bugs(?) in Firmware 2.20 / Drei Käfer(?) in Firmware 220

[sailor]

Hi,

the deco-calculation is based on all active gases with a depth-setting > 0 mtr plus the first gas.
Deactivated gases and gases set to 0 mtr. ( beside the first gas ) are not considered for the deco-calculation.

Reiner



scubatinoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me too...
>
> At this point i have another question: How is OSTC
> calculating the deco plan? Let's do a dive down to
> 60m for 20 Min with a TMX 18/45. As soon as i get
> into deco, my OSTC will calculate a deco plan. Is
> this plan only based on the actual breathing gas
> and recalculated whenever a gas change is done, or
> is the OSTC "looking into the future" and
> calculates the deco plan already with expected gas
> changes @21m and @6m, if i have activated
> G2:50/00@21m and G3:100/00@6m, for example?

[sailor]

Hi,

i believe the bug is somehow related to CF55.
The bug first appeared with CF55 set > 0.
Now it is also showing with CF55 set to 0.

Reiner


tiefunten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Solodiver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, IMHO the deco should just be recalculated
> when
> > a gas deactivated (or activated). But the deco
> > ceiling should not get stuck when a change is
> not
> > done but should allow to continue the dive with
> > the current gas (which means longer deco
> times).
> >
>
>
> In fact I meant exactly what you wrote here. When
> you don't switch to an active deco gas, deco
> should be recalculated using the gas which is
> currently active after a few minutes. That is
> exactly how the Ostc behaved before... don't know
> were this bug comes from but I would be interested
> in a comment from Matthias or Christian on this
> topic!

[scubatinoo]

sailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> the deco-calculation is based on all active gases
> with a depth-setting


Ok, but then it needs some kind of interaction with the user! The user has to decide if he changes the gas like planned, or tells the computer that he is not using the gas for certain reasons... And then the recalculation of the deco plan has to be done with the new gas situation.

In my eyes some kind of dialog is necessarily

[tiefunten]

I don't really think that interaction is needed there: The OSTC should recalculate the deco information after some minutes if you don't switch to the next gas in the gaslist. This is absolutely no problem, the deco will only be longer. If you decide to switch to that gas manually later, then the OSTC will recalculate using the gas you are currently breathing. This should be quite simple - and this was exactly the way how the OSTC behaved without CF 55 or at least CF55=0 before V2.2...

[Solodiver]

As written above: The interaction is already there - one is able to activate or deactivate in the water. Thats it - please do not change anything else!

[scubatinoo]

I would like to know and to clearly see when my OSTC does change something automaticaly! And before that i would like to decide if i let him do so or tell him what to do.

So why are you guys talking against a more userfriendly interaction?

[Solodiver]

Unfortunately I had to do an other OC dive and discovered an different (?) serious bug in the deco calculation/showing when my unit suddenly showed a stop at 11m (!) which did not clear.

It happened when I did my 12m stop with NX69 to which I switched before and which has been the last active gas in my gaslist. After finishing this stop it did not switch to the 9m stop but to 11m and also showed it red when ascendig above. I've not been able to clear this until I switched gases several times and just continued my dive. Somewhen it returned to "normal" and continued to show the 3m stop. The decoplan also showed the 11m stop in there, but in yellow!? What does a yellow color in there mesan?

Also I had the strong feeling that the GF% has been much to low afterwards (10min @3m at the same time).

This is a short video which has been supposed to show this behaviour in the water but see for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbQYrjvQkA

This is the dive profile clearly showing there is 11m ceiling:

[img]http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/file.ph ... oldjoe.png[/img]

[tiefunten]

Can you repeat that with the simulator? Maybe it would be better to switch back to an older version when doing dives with more than one deco gas...

[scubatinoo]

@solodiver: did you set a changing depth for NX69? And what was set in CF18 (pp02 max)?

[tiefunten]

I did some simulator tests yesterday: Seems like it is still a bug somehow related to the old CF55-story: The OSTC shows a deco stop of 1min at the change depth you programmed for your deco gases regardless if you actually have to do deko at that depth. In the decoplan, those stops are shown in yellow, but in the actual divemode, they are shown as normal stops. If you don't switch gases then, the OSTC shows this stop for at least 4 minutes. If I interpret the graph from Solodiver and some other shown dives in the forum correctly, those gasswitch-stops are also shown in the ceiling within the logbook although this is not the real deco-ceiling for this dive.

In my opinion it would be better to delete those 1min-stops for the gasswitch as well as CF55 as long as this is only causing serious problems. I wouldn't care if A) those stops wouldn't be calculated into the real decotime (for example 1min at 21m when the shallowest other stop is 12m) and not shown in the ceiling in the logbook B) Recalculation of the new deco schedule would be done within 1 or 2mins if you don't switch to the estimated deco gas. At the moment (unfortunately I wasn't diving the last weeks), I would deactivate all my deco-gases at the beginning of the dive and only activate when I really breath them.

[scubatinoo]

tiefunten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the moment (unfortunately I
> wasn't diving the last weeks), I would deactivate
> all my deco-gases at the beginning of the dive and
> only activate when I really breath them.

But then you'll never get a realistic deco plan, except
at the end of your dive...

I would remove CF55 completely. Defining a delay is somehow like looking in a crystal ball...

[Solodiver]

scubatinoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @solodiver: did you set a changing depth for NX69?
> And what was set in CF18 (pp02 max)?

Change depth has been set to 13m which has been proposed as default also. It was my only active deco gas, I switched to pure oxygen afterwards which has not been active before.

CF18 is most likely set to 1,60 but I have to check this.

HTH,
Jan

[tiefunten]

scubatinoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tiefunten Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At the moment (unfortunately I
> > wasn't diving the last weeks), I would
> deactivate
> > all my deco-gases at the beginning of the dive
> and
> > only activate when I really breath them.
>
> But then you'll never get a realistic deco plan,
> except
> at the end of your dive...
>
> I would remove CF55 completely. Defining a delay
> is somehow like looking in a crystal ball...

Well, I can plan my dive beforehand so I do know how much deco there will be. I haven't said that I want to do that all the time, but as long as there are those ceiling and stucking problems, I will do so.

@ Solodiver: Your 11m stop is even more strange when you set changedepth to 13m!? When you are sure about that, this bug is even more worse - and I think not related to CF55 anymore. Unfortunately Matthias and Christian do not seem to have an idea what is wrong here at the moment--- they would have written a comment here then I think.

[scubatinoo]

tiefunten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I can plan my dive beforehand so I do know
> how much deco there will be.

I do the same But now (not really now, but in the near future hopefully) we have the advantage of having an OSTC-Planner to plan the dives and an OSTC-Divecomputer who calculates the same "on-the-fly" - with very similar (if not the same) decoplan.

I stick to my feature request that the OSTC should get a feedback from the diver about changing to a better gas (yes/no), and not silently waiting until Nirvana...

[scubatinoo]

@Solodiver:
You set the changing depth to 13m? This would be right with ppO2=1,60bar... But not with the decoplan at all. There's never a stopp supposed at 13m. The next stopp to change to your gas EAN69 is 12m. Maybe it then has also something todo with the Deco Offset (CF16), which is probably 1m. So OSTC will tell you between 12m and 11m that there's a "better" gas, even-though you already switched to that gas at 13m...

I've mentioned earlier that OSTC doesn't know or doesn't care if a gas is a
- travel gas
- bottom gas
- deco gas
So i'm getting "better gas" hints even during descent...

[Solodiver]

CF16=0.4
CF18=1,60

The change depth configured for a gas is not related to deco stops, is it? As I wrote before, the 13m is also the default suggested by the unit itself.

[JeanDo]

@solodiver:

Can you email me the dive data: I have a new replay button in OSTC Planner, so I can now start to investigate that... Best format is XML generated by DivingLog (the only one I read by now).
I'll need all gas settings, model, and GF too.

Regards,

[tiefunten]

Is this issue fixed with 2.21 stable now or is this topic another bug!?