Decoplan

[knl]

A) I generally have difficulties to interpret the Deco curve!
At the last given example from JeanDo I would estimate the following deco details:

1. After ca. 8' into the dive the first deco 3m started
2. Then it goes down to 11m for 3'
3. 13m for 2'
4. 18m for 2'

And then all the way up with some other values. I does not make any sense to me, could anybody help me out with the correct way to read that graph?

B) Also the temperature graph makes me unsure about my way of reading.
the absolute number in the header summery tells me 27.4 => how does the orange graph relate to that number?

thanks for helping me out!

Lukas

[Solodiver]

What is the problem with the deco display? This is common around all diving computers and diving software. It just tells you the deco you actually have done in your dive. In the example it is quite ease to understand: You start (as always) with the 3m stop which gets longer when you proceed your dive until it goes up/down to 6m and so on. The time is - of course - only relevant if you start ascending and doing your deco. The max deco done in the example is around 20min, this is the time one have seen a deco ceiling while ascending and is not equal to the max TTS shown by the unit. The TTS is usualy shorter and - of course - calculated on an ideal base assuming one is doing the deco exactly as calculated which is not true for the very most dives (and not in the shown profile).

For people doing deco dives regularly the graph is easy to read. Displaying max. TTS is a different issue.

The temp graph is hardcoded to a fix scale from around 4 to 35 degrees C described by JD in an other thread. Not so easy to read if you don't have a glue about the scale in the log view but it gives you an idea. Get the actual values using your diving software.

HTH,
Jan

[cparsons]

Working on the assumption that each 'step' is 3m, each time increment is 10mins and each depth increment is 10m my interpretation is

First stop was 3m
next was 12m
then 15m
then 18m

after 10mins the ascent started, and there was a few minutes deco shown at 18,15,12,9,6 and 3 with perhaps around 10mins at 3m

I have an Inspiration with a deco 'ceiling' and this moves up as I ascend (and consequently start off gassing) if I ascend slowly enough often the deco ceiling vanishes before I meet it (think this has been mentioned in another thread?) and I don't have to actually stop underwater, or at least only end up doing stops at 6 or 3 - you can see this on the simulator, go shallow but deeper than the stop - the time will still drop off but more slowly?

This is ok on a reef but I like wreck diving which tends to mean an ascent in open water on a marker buoy fired up from the bottom and I get bored so tend to go straight to the stop depths as you off gas a bit quicker, and I get my cup of tea quicker

But I am sure you know all this already

I liked one of the examples of graphs made up of vertical lines that went red when exceeded, hope this ends up on the 2.0 release, good indication of the red warning on the display underwater when you are too shallow for a stop?

Think this has also been mentioned by someone else already?

The more I play around with my OSTC the more I like it, Heinrich and his helpers are heros

Cheers

[tiefunten]

@ Solodiver: In JeanDo's example, is there a 2-3 minute stop at 18m or does the deo start at 15? The rest of the deco-curve is clear for me but I'm not sure if the deepest part of the ceiling resembles the first stop or only the first "Stair-step"?

[Solodiver]

Not sure if I understand you correctly, you may try to ask this again in German

How do you define the start of the decompression phase? In my personal definiton this is when the ongas phase ends and the OSTC starts showing a GF% value. This has nothing to do with the shown ceiling. In the example the ascent seems to start after 10min where a ceiling at 12m is shown. While doing the ascend (and not being on the calculated deco level) the diver is still ongasing so the deco (time and ceiling) is incremented further. This is common and as Chris wrote one may decompress already while going shallower still doing the "main" dive so this might not be counted as deco!?

HTH,
Jan

[tiefunten]

Hallo Jan,

mir ist das mit der Ceiling eigentlich schon klar. Meine Frage bezog sich darauf, ob man das in JeanDo's Beispiel so zu verstehen hat, dass der Rechner tatsächlich einen Stop von ein paar Minuten auf 18m angezeigt hat oder erst ab 15m? Oder kann man die tatsächlich notwendige Mindestdekozeit gar nicht aus diesem Ceilingdiagramm rauslesen? Ich verstehe das Diagramm in etwa so: Wenn man nach knapp 15min aus rund 30m Tiefe direkt höher getaucht wäre, hätte man auf 18m stoppen müssen. Da man aber langsamer aufgestiegen ist, führte dieser langsame Aufstieg dazu, dass die erste Dekostufe etwas flacher angesetzt wurde. Es ist mir letztendlich einfach nicht ganz klar, ob die Zeit die im Celingblock auf 18m ausgewiesen wird zur Dekozeit zu rechnen ist oder nicht.

Gruß,

Jörn

[Solodiver]

Prinzipiell ist es so wie Du schreibst, Ja. Die (max. und für jede Stufe angezeigte) Dekozeit ändert sich aber während des (langsamen) Aufstieges und Verbleibs unterhalb der Dekostufe. Die Gesamtzeit wird länger da die Dekoqualität durch die höheren Tiefen suboptimal ist, die Zeiten auf tieferen Stufen können jedoch gleichzeitig "schrumpfen". Auch die Zeit die für 18m angezeigt wird kann sich ändern. Und natürlich gehört das zur Dekozeit. tatsächlich beginnt die wenn Dein Körper auszugasen beginnt (GF%>0, ich empfehle das jedem sich das anzeigen zu lassen). Der Rechner hat für 18m sicher eine StopZeit angezeigt, ob es die im Diagramm angezeigten 3min waren oder tatsächlich nur 1 oder 2min lässt sich nicht mehr sagen da sich die Dekozeit sukzessive verlängert haben könnte während der 18m Stop bereits angezeigt wurde (z.B. ist bereits 1 min mit Anzeige "18m 1'" vergangen und dann wurde die Deko für 18m länger). Genau(er) ableiten lässt sich das aus so einem Diagramm nur wenn der Taucher die Dekostufen genau einhält. Theoretisch kann man die Dekozeiten auch im Nachheinein auf Basis des Tauchprofils nochmal nachrechnen, ich suche da schon länger nach einer einfachen Möglichkeit. Wäre echt cool wenn das der eingebaute Simulator oder ein externes Programm wie JDiveLog unterstützen würde, dann könnte man auch mal mit verschiedenen GF Settings und ggf. auch Gasen rumspielen und echte TG in einer "Was wäre wenn" Simulation nachstellen.

Wenn es Dich interessiert kann ich dir mal ein paar Profile von mir mit längerer Deko senden .

HTH,
der Jan

English: Just some deco stuff
BTW: Does anybody know of a possibility to replay a real dive (given by a dive log)? Anybody else interested to see such a possibilty in the internal simulator or (better) in JDiveLog?

[wrobell]

Solodiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW: Does anybody know of a possibility to replay
> a real dive (given by a dive log)? Anybody else
> interested to see such a possibilty in the
> internal simulator or (better) in JDiveLog?

at the moment, Kenozooid has the ability to start and execute real time dive simulation on OSTC. replaying a dive should be quite easy to do. pls, contact me on priv if you need more info.

w

[JeanDo]

BTW: Does anybody know of a possibility to replay a real dive (given by a dive log)? Anybody else interested to see such a possibilty in the internal simulator or (better) in JDiveLog?

It is also a standard feature of DivingLog 5.0

[Solodiver]

Can I change GF seetings and/or gas in the replay simulation? This is my main purpose to know the outcome of different parameters for a given dive...

Thx,
Jan

[wrobell]

before the replay you can set up your ostc to use different gas or gf settings. during the replay you can change gases as during the dive on the ostc.

current ostc communication protocol does not allow to change gases from your PC.

as well, the replay is approximate - the depth are accurate to 1m, i.e. 1.5m has to be rounded.

regards,

w

[O2diver]

From what exactly is using algorithm the simulator? Are you using the same algorithm as in the settings? I dive on the L16-GF GFL30 GFH80 OC. However, the simulation is quite incompatible with my planner. I'm using GAP. To plan came out like I have to otherwise adjust the GF to GAP. Please clarify.

[Solodiver]

Make sure there is the same GF settings in GAP and OSTC. More important: Use the same deco model, VPM is not supported by OSTC (except DR5 where a non free firmware is available). Mind also the other CF settings which add some additional margins and check conservatisms you may be able to define in GAP.

What exactly is different?

[O2diver]

I usued the same GF settings. but we have here other deco stops than onto ostc. Why?

[Zyrus]

O2diver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I usued the same GF settings. but we have here
> other deco stops than onto ostc. Why?


Your decentspeed in you calculation is very slow.... 0-42 in 6 mins?

/Z

[JeanDo]

OSTC decoplanner use an instant descent. Which gives you ~ 3 or 6 more minutes at bottom depth.
Also check the security offset inside GAP : it 1m for the OSTC.

Regards